unknown small brass token

[andyg]

the fabric of this object looks similar to these,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Set-3-Sikh-Guru-Nanak-Token-Coins-Sat-Kartar-Akal-Sahai-Jantar-/121164548154?pt=UK_Coins_Ancient_RL&hash=item1c35f8483a

which I think quite modern....

[malj1]

I speculate that this is in fact a Decorative sequin as described by Rogers in Toy Coins. Hence the tiny size of 10mm. [is it very thin too? I wonder]

I quote...
Section 797 Decorative Sequins and bead accessories.
There are many thin brass copies of coins of Turkish style. Most of these are less than 0.3 mm thick and about 10 to 20 mm in diameter. These often copy the Venetian gold coin the zecchino, which was extensively copied and the name has been corrupted in English to sequin. It was the custom, in many parts of the near and middle east, for brides to wear their dowry as gold coins and these brass sequins were cheap replacements. There are almost as many without a suspension hole provided as those which have. As a result there are many that have been crudely pieced to enable them to be sewn on to the clothes. No detailed study has been made of the range of types, though some are closer to coinage types of the area than others. There are also a few tokens that can be confused with the better types.

See also the Turkey: Galata Bridge token 20 para (1912). which is often confused with the above.

[saro]

I never thought that this small token (with very low value) could have started so interesting discussions ! many thanks to you.
Unfortunately, I haven't it in hands and I have no idea of its thickness or weight. it seems to have been melted.

- no value on it = may be not for use for payment (like 20 para token of Galata bridge).
- it could be a decorative token ? if it is, others should be found with holes ?
- may be also is it a kind of commemorative medal? may be with one in hand it could be possible to decipher the legend, which seems to me to be a little fantaisist.

[FosseWay]

Something that does differentiate this token from the Turkish-style sequins is that the text appears to be authentic and legible. I have a number of copy sequins that have text that ranges from being identifiable if you know what you're looking for (zarb fi Qstantiniyah for example) to a random jumble of squiggles and dots that mean nothing in Arabic/Turkish. But none of them have text that is as clearly formed as on saro's piece.

[ChrisHagen]

I know that making it bigger doesn't make it clearer. But perhaps somebody is able to read some of the text? It almost seems to start with the numeral "10"? Then it goes Thaa'.. and that is where I can't read anymore.



Fun fact: there is a unicode character for the right-facing star-and-crescent: ☪

[paisepagal]

The second one of saro is in gurmukhi....im not sure if it makes any sense...the first one does read Sant kartaar in devnagari (Hindi)

[ChrisHagen]

The second one of saro is in gurmukhi....im not sure if it makes any sense...the first one does read Sant kartaar in devnagari (Hindi)

Greetings,
Do you mean that the text in the zoomed picture just above your post reads Sant kartaar?

[paisepagal]

Greetings,
Do you mean that the text in the zoomed picture just above your post reads Sant kartaar?

i was referring to the tokens posted by saro....
as far as what seems like a paki token, either the pic is a mirror image, or the supposedly Urdu text is bogus...but i cannot read Urdu myself, though im sure those are just squiggly lines

[ChrisHagen]

saro only posted one token, and it doesn't have devanagari text, so I am confused. Do you mean a coin that was linked?

By the way, just throwing this idea out there: telephone token.

[paisepagal]

saro only posted one token, and it doesn't have devanagari text, so I am confused. Do you mean a coin that was linked?

By the way, just throwing this idea out there: telephone token.

oops im sorry, i meant andyg (guru nanak tokens)

[ChrisHagen]

Ahhh now I understand, sorry!

[FosseWay]

Here is the brass MTT imitation that Malcolm mentions upthread.

32,7 mm, 10,00 g

[malj1]

I should mention that Rogers says The earlier Maria Theresa types were available in many sizes, materials, and finishes and were of better quality with both sides reproduced even when made as buttons. [See also Section 112]



Your piece is certainly of better quality even of that in Reply #16

[saro]

I have now this token in hand and I think that the question is solved; the text is in urdu language and I read it as :
"Pakistan weapons" (or dockyard), which well fits with the crescent & star + crossed swords symbols.

 Brass token of Pakistan / exact weight and size are : 16,5mm diameter / 1,62g

What use ? I don't know...

[FosseWay]

Possibly for use by employees of a naval dockyard or other military installation, either on board ships or in the shipyard - for meals, drinks, public transport...

There are numerous Swedish tokens issued by shipyards (civil and military) which were used in these ways. Most of the Gothenburg ones (civil shipyards) are connected to public transport, where the shipyard subsidised its employees' journeys to work by buying specially produced tokens from the ferry operator at the standard price and then selling them at a reduced price to employees. Those used elsewhere (principally Stockholm and Karlskrona for military, Malmö for civil) seem to have been for internal use, e.g. canteens.