Author Topic: Egypt: Medium/small silver coin  (Read 1717 times)

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Offline ChrisHagen

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Egypt: Medium/small silver coin
« on: July 07, 2013, 05:39:27 PM »
Hi,
Obviously this coin is very worn, but I took the best pictures I could!

It weighs 0.616 grams, and has a diameter of 15.5 to 16.5 millimeters.

It came with some other unidentified coins, a couple of which I have identified as coins from Turkey from the early 19th century.

Thanks for looking!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 10:13:45 AM by <k> »

Offline THCoins

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Re: Egypt: Medium/small silver coin
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2013, 03:41:40 PM »
Picture, weight and size definitely fit with an Ottoman Akce. Can not give you a definite ruler name, though it is likely between 1500 and 1600 AD.
One very similar on zeno here

Offline Manzikert

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Re: Egypt: Medium/small silver coin
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2013, 12:14:35 AM »
I'm pretty sure this is an Egyptian medin: see attached image for the correct orientation. These are usually terribly struck so are very difficult to identify, and unfortunately I don't think there is enough inscription on yours for a proper identification but the date is probably c.1600-1650.

Best wishes

Alan

Offline THCoins

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Re: Egypt: Medium/small silver coin
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2013, 11:17:37 AM »
You may very well be right Alan !
I was reading in a bit on the Ottomans as i don't know much about them. Encountered this type of design with several rulers and remembered this thread. This design did seem to go "out of fashion" after 1600, but for Egypt this may be different.

Offline ChrisHagen

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Re: Egypt: Medium/small silver coin
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2013, 11:38:31 AM »
Thanks for turning my image the right side up!

So far I have tentatively ID'd this as an akce or párah of Osman II (1618-22 AD) minted in Misr like this one on Zeno (see image). Thanks for turning my image the right side up! I hadn't fixed it since realizing what was up and down on the coin. Like you say it is indeed horribly struck, and I was fixated on the heart-like shape that I saw when turning the coin upside-down!

Can you tell me what this "knot" symbolizes? I assume that it is just a fancy calligraphic way of writing some ligature in the Arabic script. If so, which characters are they?

Edit: It seems than an akce would weigh around 0.3g while medin should weigh around 0.9g. I can't find anything of Google about a coin denomination called a "párah" except for links quoting Zeno. Can anyone enlighten me?

I found this NGC catalog entry, do you think my coin was minted in AH 1027?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 11:51:07 AM by ChrisHagen »

Offline THCoins

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Re: Egypt: Medium/small silver coin
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2013, 03:00:55 PM »
I believe a Para is simply 3 Akce ? Wiki

The weight of the Akce was not constant over time. I found that an Akce around 1400 AD weighted 1.2 gr. Both weight and silver content decreased gradually thereafter. So a coin of 0.6 grams can very well be an Akce, and this also gives you a rough time indication.

Offline ChrisHagen

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Re: Egypt: Medium/small silver coin
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2013, 12:21:38 AM »
LOL of course párah = para. Wow. I feel dumb now  ;D

The weight confusion I have is primarily due to the NGC catalog. They have the Egyptian AH 1027 Osman II akce as weighing 0.28-0.36g, and the medin as weighing 0.92g. So this puts my 0.6g coin right in the middle of the two denominations. However I think I was too hasty and just looked at the weights when visiting the pages earlier, because now I seem to spot a strong similarity to the medin while the akce in fact looks differently (even though they only have one side pictured.)

Now, to add to the confusion, in AH 1027 Egypt made an akce and a medin, Turkey made an akce and a para, and Syria made an akce and a medin! You can understand why I was confused!

But in any case I have a pretty good feeling about this being from Egypt. Now, as for the denomination, it's probably a 0.92 gram medin that was worn down to 0.62 grams. I still don't know why people on zeno are calling them either akces or párahs though (regardless of weight) if these are medins. But oh well.

Offline Manzikert

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Re: Egypt: Medium/small silver coin
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2013, 07:15:05 PM »
I can't find a separate section for Egypt on Zeno, so everything seems to get put under the main Ottoman denominations, despite the fact that Egypt used different names for the same weight standards, so that (if I've got it right) what was called a para (3 akches ) in the rest of the empire was called a medin in Egypt.

Alan

Offline ChrisHagen

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Re: Egypt: Medium/small silver coin
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2013, 08:27:23 AM »
Thanks for clearing up the denomination confusion for me :)