Rupee of Broach

Started by Rangnath, September 05, 2008, 11:15:20 PM

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Rangnath

Broach, or even spelled Bharuch (has it an aspirated "H" after the "B" sound?),  has a long history.  Located on the Narmada River 50 km from the Gulf of Cambay, it was a port known to the ancient Chinese and Greeks.  This coin was minted there.
But who was responsible for its minting?  The rupee, is a C#35.  It is either undated or the date is off the flan.  If the coin was minted before 1772, the responsibility belongs to the Nawabs (Governors) whose power was at least nominally drawn from the Moghuls.
If it was minted between 1772 and 1783, the authority might have been British.  If it was minted after 1783 and before 1803, it was minted by the pleasure of the Sindhia and Gwalior gets the credit. After 1803, the British once again gain control of the mint.
According to my very special resource "Coins of the Sindhias", which I recommend to anyone with an interest in collecting coins from Gwalior State,  Rupees of the Nawabs had a 5-petalled flower as the dominant mint mark.  After 1772, this mark was replaced with the St. Thomas cross, which was in use until 1806, when the mint was closed. 
So, if my understanding is correct, then technically this coin is either a coin minted by Gwalior, or Broach under Sindhia nominal control or by Broach under British control.   
richie


Oesho

Quote from: Rangnath on September 05, 2008, 11:15:20 PM
According to my very special resource "Coins of the Sindhias", which I recommend to anyone with an interest in collecting coins from Gwalior State,  Rupees of the Nawabs had a 5-petalled flower as the dominant mint mark.  After 1772, this mark was replaced with the St. Thomas cross, which was in use until 1806, when the mint was closed. 
So, if my understanding is correct, then technically this coin is either a coin minted by Gwalior, or Broach under Sindhia nominal control or by Broach under British control.   
richie
Your understanding is perfectly correct. Unless a date or regnal year can be observed on the coin, it is not possible to either attribute them to the Sindhias or the British East India Company.

Rangnath

Thank you Oesho. 
Well Aidan, here is my question for you. 
Have you a place for coins which may or may not be of commonwealth  concern: this coin for example? Would you collect it or not?
richie

BC Numismatics

Quote from: Rangnath on September 09, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Thank you Oesho. 
Well Aidan, here is my question for you. 
Have you a place for coins which may or may not be of commonwealth  concern: this coin for example? Would you collect it or not?
richie

Richie,
  If this coin was of a type that was confirmed to have been issued after Broach came under British suzerainty,I would collect it.In the case of Coorg,its coins were of a type that started off prior to coming under British suzerainty,but continued to be struck until the 20th. Century.It is impossible to distinguish between those issued under British suzerainty,& those that weren't.In that country's case,I would collect it.

Aidan.

Overlord

Another example (mass=11.4 g):

Obverse


Reverse

BC Numismatics

Amit,
  That's a very nice coin that you have got there.

Aidan.

Figleaf

What's striking to me is that both coins show almost the same part of the die.

Nice, clear strike, gentlemen and a coin with an interesting story. Congratulations!

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

asm

Excellent coins both. I have this as well as the half rupee. Like these coins, mine to do not show any dates.
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Abhay

I have Half rupee Coin from Broach Mint. This is RY 34, and hence minted during the reigns of Scindias.

Abhay
INVESTING IN YESTERDAY

Figleaf

That's a helpful picture, engipress. It shows that the die is at the very least twice a s big as the flan. No wonder most coins don't show the date; it has a chance of at least 50% of being outside the area on the coin.

For me, this opens the question of how these coins were minted. If the dies are too big, you'll want the flans placed in such a way, that hammering the coins doesn't upset the sandwich of dies and flan. It follows that if there is one flan in the sandwich, it must be placed centrally. Since your coin proves that the coins were not placed centrally, it follows that they were hammered between two and four at the same time. If you could reconstruct the dies with enough coins, you could work out how many flans would normally be placed between the dies...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Oesho

The dies where indeed quite large in diameter, but I have not come across any evidence that multiple flans were put in between the two dies, so that more coins could be struck at the same time. Sometimes you may find off-centre struck coins, but not to the extent that you find coins of Broach showing the rim of the die.
Particular on the obverse the impression almost invariably shows "Shah Gha(zi)", which would not happen if more flans were put between the dies at the same time.

Rangnath

Your 1/2 rupee is in wonderful condition engipress. Thanks so much for posting it.
And thanks Figleaf and Oesho.  I wondered if multiple flans could be struck. The clarification was helpful.

richie