Author Topic: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?:AE Fals, al Mansur (AH136-158/AD754-775)  (Read 1595 times)

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Offline bagerap

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I'd expect this to be silver but it's the colour of brass. 26 mm, +/- 3 gr (my new scales are on order)

Apart from that I know nothing about it.
Over to you maestri.
And thank you.

akona20

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 09:30:19 PM »
The coin is Ummayid.

They are depicted in the photographs upside down. For attribution the important suff is around the edges of the coin and I can't see a darn thing.

I had a gold dinar once that did look like brass and weighed 3.06 grams.






Offline Figleaf

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 09:31:05 PM »
My impression is that the images should be rotated 180. They remind me of Ummayad gold coins, with the right picture looking more like a real coin while the left does not ring any bells. I don't know if such a coin existed, but I would bet it didn't.

The shape of the flan says the piece was not struck in a collar. My guess would be a local (Lebanon? Syria?), bot not a contemporary imitation meant for the tourist trade. The sort of piece offered to you as you walk around the ruins of X and a local guy comes up saying he found these coins in X and they're really old and would you buy them?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline bagerap

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 11:02:13 PM »
Thank you gentlemen. Interestingly I knew which way was up and corrected this when I cropped the picture in Photobucket.
Result, a picture that is neither cropped nor rotated.

Offline bagerap

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 02:26:26 PM »
Bumping to get ahead of moved items.

Offline THCoins

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 04:37:28 PM »
With the text looking so like a line my first association would be Abbasid rather than Umayyad ?

Offline Oesho

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 11:58:40 PM »
This is a fals struck during the time of the Abbasid Caliph of Bagdad, al Mansur (AH136-158/AD754-775), mint: Madinat al-Salam, date: AH157.
Ref.: Mitchiner, The World of Islam, #149

Offline bagerap

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 12:16:40 AM »
Thank you. Would this be very debased silver or brass?

Offline Oesho

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 12:37:57 AM »
It is brass, no debased silver.

Offline bagerap

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 12:57:40 AM »
Thank you. I never cease to be amazed at the things thrown up in our times that come from an age unimaginable to us.

akona20

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 04:17:42 AM »
Another reference text I own headed for the dump.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 03:46:34 PM »
Quote
Another reference text I own headed for the dump.
What did you have in mind, Arthur?

akona20

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Re: Brass, or very debased silver Dinar?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 09:41:42 PM »
Hi Jan,

In the early 70's when I was doing advanced university work I would go to museums and copy coins of all countries with their attribution labels. It was an exercise in memory training and a very good one.

However there is a curse and that is once seen never forgotten. Well almost never forgotten. So if I had made an error in those days or perhaps the museum had made an error it has remained with me and my first reaction is to go back to that.

Now with sight rehabilitation happening and ongoing it is time to engage the brain in another way rather than rote learned coins and get it fully functional at this level by analysis. Just another step in injury rehabilition.

No I would NEVER dispose of by dumping any formal reference books.