Author Topic: How do they do it?  (Read 2250 times)

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Offline Husain Makda

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How do they do it?
« on: December 28, 2012, 02:11:40 PM »
This is how they make fakes here, copper coin, first nickel plated and then gold plated. (Kutch 100 koris)
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akona20

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2012, 10:03:56 PM »
The making of fakes is a relatively easy task. In fact in a broad discussion over an allegedly fake coin on here very early this year we were all advised that they could be obtained (and very good ones) for a comparatively few rupees in many places in India. So we have a set of standard protections against fakes in our on arsenal of tricks.

1. Understand the coins you are buying.
2. Weigh and measure your coins. The cost of this equipment these days is very low indeed for good accurate equipment. In fact less the the price of one common Mughal rupee. The measurement should also include thickness. Understand a rough volumetric calculation with the knowledge that thicker than "normal" coins can show the correct weight due to over thickness as part of the faking process. In this you have to understand, as part of the research, the amount of silver in the coins. This does not help with some "jewellers imitations" but understanding the coin itself from research will help.
3. If you wish to buy from street merchants then the above is an absolute necessity.
4. New types and mints and dates are still being discovered. So your broad basic knowledge will let you pick these rarities.
5. If the coin you buy is old and yet bright and shiney then it either has been cleaned or made recently. You be the judge of which it is from knowledge. A shiney old rupee is a sign that perhaps something is not right with the coin. To get a feel for what the coins should look like that great resource of Zeno (Oesho looks after the sub continent section) has thousands of coins displayed. You can get the look of real coins by carefully checking this free resource.
6. For those who want high quality coins then choice UNC does not have to mean bright and shiney in older coins.
7. Many coin date/mint/ legend combinations from pre First War of Independence are very rare and new finds are made frequently. Of these rare coins if they are bright and shiney then you must go through the whole identification process. Hoard coins in practicaly all metals are never found bright and shiney unless they have been cleaned by the finder or down the selling trail in some way.
8. Silver tarnishing is a natural process and the change in standard to virtually Sterling Silver ensures they will tarnish more than higher quality silver frequently.
9. Coins shown on this site as genuine are sometimes queried by a number of members and given that we seem to want to discuss fakes rather than gain the knowledge to equip ourselves to fight against them in our own buying process then in future all such coins will be queried.
10. I have a small collection of fake Mughal rupees. Some were obviously struck with genuine dies but weight and measurement found them out.

Be prepared or be conned. Goes for all coins and always has.

Offline Husain Makda

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 04:49:55 AM »
very very useful tips, thankyou very much sir.
Blessed by the Masters.

Offline nomadbird

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 04:52:29 AM »
very very useful tips, thankyou very much sir.

Are you a fake identification specialist?  today, too many posts on fakes...... did you buy some fakes ? 
Thx
Nomadbird

Offline Husain Makda

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 04:56:17 AM »
no no, I am just saving someones hard erned money.
Blessed by the Masters.

Offline dheer

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2012, 05:53:23 AM »
Good Tips, appreciate them.
http://coinsofrepublicindia.blogspot.in
A guide on Republic India Coins & Currencies

Offline Figleaf

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2012, 05:17:20 PM »
Here is my approach. Many steps will be the same or similar as those mentioned by akona above. I will assume that you have the coin in hand, unless otherwise stated.

  • Compare the coin with a picture of a known genuine coin. Real people will actually sometimes buy something marked COPY as genuine. Never be one of them. Look especially for "fat" lettering and "fat" small details (may also be caused by wear). On older Indian coins, make sure the design goes all the way to the edge on all sides. Take a long, hard look at the edge, looking for a seam, irregular or very coarse milling and misaligned lettering. Look for a seam just inside the piling edge - it may be covered by dirt. Look at details that command a higher price, such as dates and mint marks. They should be in the right place and of the right size and correctly aligned. A final one in a date should be exactly like a leading one. Take a high-res picture of the coin if you cannot take it home and do your comparison at home.
  • Do the "ping" test (some coins are supposed to be cast), especially if the details seem just a tiny bit too coarse or large. Ask a friendly jeweller if the coin is of real silver/gold (with experience you can do this yourself)
  • Weigh and measure the coin. This is often the easiest way to catch forgeries.

I think volume tests are dandy, but I have yet to find a way to do it. First, you need to know what the volume should be. It can be calculated with the official weight and precise metal composition, but often, these data are not available. Second, many coins have so little volume it is hard to measure.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 08:14:31 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2012, 05:31:29 PM »
As a follow-up, here are some common ways to make and recognize forging techniques:

Casting: the poor man's technique. Press a genuine coin in a soft substance (e.g. clay) to make a mould and make a canal for the molten metal. Make a mould of the other side in the same way. Connect moulds and pour in molten metal. Cool, remove mould and file to size. Recognize cast coins by "ping test", air bubbles, fuzzy details and bad edges.

Electrotyping: cover an impression in clay of a genuine coin with a layer of metal by electrolysis. Peel off. Fill and connect with fake of the other side. Recognize electrotyped coins by bad weight, seam.

Tooling 1: scrape away one side of a coin without touching the piling edge (can be done mechanically). Combine with one side of another coin where the other side and the piling edge is removed. Recognize these by a seam inside the piling edge and possibly bad weight.

Tooling 2: dig out a detail (e.g. mint mark) from the surrounding metal. Recognize these by scratches around the detail. This method is also used to "improve" a coin's grading.

Tooling 3: file away a detail and replace it by a different one. Often used to create "scarce years". Detail is usually badly aligned or placed. Trust your eyes. It can see bad alignment that's practically impossible to measure.

Lathed copy: use sophisticated lathe to copy. Recognise these by a bad edge and bad quality metal.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 08:12:12 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Husain Makda

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2012, 06:59:17 PM »
thanks peter, if you dont mind I would like to use the tips for a book one my friend is writing, which is pdf and free to download.
Blessed by the Masters.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2012, 08:08:48 PM »
No problem, Husain. Please note that I modified the text. Glad to spread this knowledge.

One more thing: seams on the edge can be filled by hammering the metal. recognise these by the hammer marks (small, flat areas).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

akona20

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Re: How do they do it?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2012, 09:34:06 PM »
MY comments placed on these threads for the purpose of education of members of this site are not to be used in any external text without express permission.

I will not withold consent in the normal course of affairs but the total context of the work will need to be reviewed.