Author Topic: Egyptian token, Tseppas  (Read 7847 times)

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Offline Figleaf

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Egyptian token, Tseppas
« on: August 02, 2008, 02:48:16 PM »
White metal token, about 32 millimeters, reverse is blank.

Arms with monogram TS separating P and 2, B underneath.

Issued by Georges Tseppas, who had an upmarket "patisserie" on Rue Fourvel in Cairo. Series B, 2 piastres. Paul Baker and I have maintained some discusions about the Tseppas family, as a branch of the family now seems to run a pastry shop in the Netherlands. Paul has more information and more pieces issued by the Tseppas dynasty of pastry makers.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 11:13:45 AM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline africancoins

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 12:49:55 AM »
Peter,
         I have worked out relatviely quite a bit about Tseppas and a few other Cairo token issuers (roughly from 1910 to 1952).....

The "P2" token type you have can be seen in Spink London Sale number 88 of 1991 and (fairly sure) in an old Simmons Gallery mailbid sale. I believe both of them refer to this as Egyptian but without any further detail.

Most monograms are the from two initials rather than the first two letters of a surname and I did not see an "S. Tseppas" metioned anywhere, nor a Rue Fourvel in Cairo (though many streets have changed names once or twice. But whoever you got your piece from could quite possibly have had a good source of info - especially if the piece has not changed hands too many times since being in Egypt. There does not seems to be a book covering this series - hence your other puzzlers.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline africancoins

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2008, 09:02:29 PM »
The January 2009 issue of the British coin magazine "Coin News" - now out - has a very interesting article on old Egyptian tokens - it took me a lot of researching and writing.......

For the index to this issue of "Coin News" see....

http://www.tokenpublishing.com/issue.asp?iid=253

I may add my layout version of the article to my website one day.

Has anyone else had this issue of the magazine yet ?

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2008, 09:23:32 PM »
Congratulations, Paul. I think it's a great article, putting some highly interesting tokens from a very interesting family of patissiers on the map. I hope you do put it up on your site.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline africancoins

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2008, 09:37:09 PM »
A few more details...

The article covers - not only Tseppas but also Loques, Lipton's Oriental Tearooms, General Automatics of Egypt and Kit Kat Lido.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

translateltd

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 09:53:48 AM »
Hi Paul,

My copy arrived yesterday - great article and well researched as always!  There appears to be an unfortunate editing error in the 2nd para on p. 51, though, where the article states that "this amount" (i.e. 5 milliemes) "had a value very close to 11s 4d in the British system".  Something must have been omitted there, because 5 milliemes was 1/200 of an Egyptian pound, and assuming the Egyptian pound to be at par with the Engilsh, that would make it 1.2 pence only; I believe the Egyptian pound was worth slightly more than the English in reality (it was by the time of the Farouk sale in the 1950s, anyway), but even so, 5 milliemes would have been worth not a great deal more than an English penny, so I'm at a loss to understand the reference to 11s 4d.


Offline africancoins

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 09:19:32 PM »
Martin,
   I missed this post of your until now....

My text to "Coin News" said....

>>The token shown here is quite large for a value of just 5 Milliemes, when say compared with contemporary Egyptian coinage and the buying power of that amount of money. This amount had a value very close to 1źd in the British system.<<

It was 975 Mil. to a GB Pound (fairly sure - from memory) and that was from around 1920 (likely a bit earlier) and fixed for quite some time. So the above is correct and so they got it wrong. I never get a proof to check. I shall let them know. Uganda - a coin - due in March 2009.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

translateltd

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 05:22:15 AM »
I hadn't thought of that - they've clearly misread 1 1/4d as 11/4d!


Offline africancoins

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2009, 11:34:05 PM »
Back to this error Martin mentioned.

Here is the relevant correction from the March 2009 "Coin News" (mine arrived today).

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 11:37:29 PM by africancoins »

Offline africancoins

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2014, 01:04:24 AM »
Going back to the "P2" token. A different piece with "P.2" can be seen here...

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/121487068836

A real chance P2 has the same meaning in each case.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2014, 01:34:16 AM »
Saving the image before it is lost.

Maybe not. The attached token has a triangular (French) mintmark. The token above has no mintmark. Many Egyptian tokens are in french, without being french. This can be explained more easily by the construction of the Suez canal and French as the lingua franca of the Mediterranean than by a huge French presence in Egypt, while we know there was an important Greek presence, due to Greeks and Turks making life difficult for each other.

The white metal doesn't fit in well with French tokens and neither does its size.

More important, the attached token is socialist (clasped hands) in design. It contrasts with "heraldry" and initials (likely of an individual), that are both markedly non-socialist. Yet P = pain fits only with a socialist, co-operative undertaking.

I do take your point that the S is unknown in combination with Tseppas, though.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2014, 09:50:22 AM »
I would imagine the P. 2 refers to a 2 Piastre denomination rather than Pains.

Tokens of another member of the Tseppas family, Evangelos appear on my Egypt page.
Malcolm
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Offline malj1

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2014, 10:22:10 AM »
An auction lot that lists the TS token as 2 Piastres DNW

1325    Other tokens attributed to Egypt: ST monogram, uniface cupro-nickel 2 Piastres, 32mm (Ford 435 [= Noble 1728]); Consommation En Piastres, plated iron,....
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline blmelon

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2016, 01:57:08 PM »
I found this token..20 piastres I guess..Tseppas patisserie was founded in 1912..so this token could be used after ottoman period (British occupation, Khedivate period or after independence)..but this token and other types of Tseppas tokens are abundant in Turkey..this is interesting..

Offline malj1

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Re: Egyptian token, Tseppas
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2016, 02:24:21 PM »
. ..but this token and other types of Tseppas tokens are abundant in Turkey..this is interesting..

I have great difficulty finding any of these Tseppas tokens!  :o

Interesting to see this one is counter-marked with an apparent high value of 20 piastre.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.