Author Topic: China, cash, emperor Huang Sung, era Pao Yuan (1038-1039)  (Read 2613 times)

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Offline Figleaf

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China, cash, emperor Huang Sung, era Pao Yuan (1038-1039)
« on: August 29, 2012, 11:42:05 AM »
The coin is a bit worn, but looks genuine to me. The second picture seems to be of the same type and has clearer characters. Our French-speaking friends have discussed this item at length here. Their theories:

  • Chinese Tai Ping rebel Huang Ti
  • Chinese emperor Huang Song
  • Annamese coin
  • Japanese coin

My best guess is a Japanese imitation of a Chinese coin. What do you think?

Peter
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 10:48:34 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unidentified cash
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 01:31:53 PM »
From translateltd, who's unable to post at the moment:

I don't see what's unusual about the coin illustrated, as it looks like a perfectly normal Huang Song Tongbao (China, AD 1039)  to me.  Its colour and fabric look like every other Northern Sung/Song coin I've seen that has come out of the ground at some stage, so not sure why it should be thought of as a Japanese copy.
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unidentified cash
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2012, 01:39:23 PM »
Remmelts catalogue entry for comparison.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline pingu

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Re: Unidentified cash
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2012, 07:49:06 PM »
Hello,

Japanese imitations (Koso Tsuho) look different.
The piece in the picture looks after a normal chinese coin.
I have 20 different coins in my collection. There might be at least 20-30 other variations. (my estimate)
Maybe the shown one is under it.


many greetings
pingu

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unidentified cash
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2012, 10:46:27 PM »
Very impressive, Pingu. I see several that come close enough and I am amazed at the variety.

Identified. Thank you gentlemen!

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Online Paris

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Re: China, cash, emperor Huang Sung, era Pao Yuan (1038-1039)
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 10:25:18 PM »
Thank you!
For your information, the person who thought about Huang Song on our forum wrote "could be a Vietnamese copy of Chinese Huang Song coin", he never talked about a purely Chinese Huang Song coin. But it was 7 years ago and he is not a member, so it is impossible to ask him for an explanation. It seems he thought like that because "on that period, Chinese coins were of excellent quality (calligraphy, casting)".

Offline bgriff99

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Re: China, cash, emperor Huang Sung, era Pao Yuan (1038-1039)
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2014, 04:39:28 AM »
Fig-leaf and Paris, this coin has a feature on the cap of the character pao which makes it look like it is from a rare private Vietnamese group.   But that is just an artifact of wear.   This is a cataloged Sung variety.   The Vietnamese issue also substitutes a different character for 'tung'.

While I'm here, how about a Japanese bita-sen version?    It is rusty but made of leaded bronze.   The scan doesn't pick it up but some high points show the bright-metal yellow color.   It is magnetic, probably around 6% iron.    It may have used an original coin to create its mother cash, but would have required both removal and adding back of some metal (easy to do with tin).   It is slightly smaller that its closest-design originals.

Second piece is a Huang-sung iron cash, which is of different style, and only a couple varieties exist.   It is broader and much thicker than a bita-sen.    Also jumps at a magnet.