Author Topic: Rarity index for indian coins  (Read 10451 times)

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Offline nomadbird

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Rarity index for indian coins
« on: July 15, 2012, 06:31:36 PM »
Hi Team,

I have this project in mind to bring a rarity index for Indian coins. Quite often we hear from dealers and ebay on scrap metals as rare piece.

Can we list the rare coins of india and try to manage a rarity index?   Are there standard rarity indexes for coins ?

Hope to have a healthy discussion

Thanks
Thx
Nomadbird

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Offline dheer

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2012, 08:57:58 AM »
Nothing in Indian Commemorative coinage is rare. There maybe a few rare ones in the definitive series.

The dealers call everything rare, because it sells.

Note that Rare & Expensvie mean different things. The Silver coins are expensive but are not rare, every dealer would have quite a few to pick from.
Even the Tilakji [I have seen dealers having bagfull of them], or the crop science circle [dealers having tons of boxes], or anyother coins that are touted as rare ...

Again what would the index say? [RRRR] or [RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR] irrelevant. One can try and list the price on the other hand ... however prices are dynamic and would depend on how desperate the buyer or seller is ...
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paisepagal

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2012, 09:21:17 AM »
This is a very difficult area to get into...And to a large extent self defeating. If there is a particular coin that members of this group deem "scarce" or "rare", it just becomes are more legitimite weapon for dealers  to charge a bomb. And of course, with the way coins are distributed across the country, what's rare for some, are ordinary for others.
However, if you can whip up some interested members to join you in this, by all means, proceed

akona20

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2012, 09:36:46 AM »
This presents an interesting scenario and the dealer dicussion point about calling everything rare because it sells smacks of the good old days in ancient coins where dealer cartels caused "rarities" and jacked up the prices accordingly.

If it helps open a new section in the research section of the board and place fair prices for these coins on there. Some discussion and arguement will be allowed. perhaps this resource will help buyers and set a reasonable market.

Offline dheer

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2012, 12:29:44 PM »
perhaps this resource will help buyers and set a reasonable market.

I wish ... what I have observed of late in Indian market is that people are ready to pay any price in general ... they do not want to wait or do proper research. In old days one would research the coin and know it, in republic india even try and get it from circulation ... of late it looks like people are ready to buy at whatever prices ... even on eBay if there are multiple listing, one just buys on the listing he see [often there would be a cheaper listing which is not on fist few pages] ... even in auction, the logic is if someone is ready to pay X [assumed fair price] i dont mind paying one bid more [as I dont have time for finding the fair price] ... now imagine whats happens if there are tons of newbiee who are bidding whithout knowing the prices  >:D >:D
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Offline Abhay

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2012, 12:46:42 PM »
There are already 2 or 3 books published by various writers on the Indian Coins, which gives the price as well as rarity of the coins.
If I remember correctly, the first such book was written by Sainath Redappa.
Recently, one more such book has been written by Dr. V. K. Gupta.
The book by V.K. Gupta is available on ebay:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/Coins-India-specialized-study-Current-Prices-/350580527056?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item51a03a4fd0#ht_500wt_1156

Abhay
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akona20

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2012, 12:48:34 PM »
There are very few things I hate. Guess it comes from mellowing with age but I really, really hate it when someone says that a simple exercise cannot be done and then lists all the perceived reasons why it can't be done.

There are people here with adequate knowledge to play a part in such a project. It's called helping collectors get a fair deal. But then again if people are under the influence of mints and sellers then I guess it is not in their interest to have such a series published.

I dialy get mail about my major project telling where I am wrong or how stupid some suggestion is. Well my answer is always simple, prove I am incorrect and I will change immediately. It has happened a few times. In fact today I changed a whole section of work on advice from a major collector. But you have to stand up and help and guide or else the market becomes a nonsense.

Offline kage01

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2012, 01:15:50 PM »
I am willing to participate in this project because I feel that coin prices should be reasonable and more and more people should be able to afford this "expensive" hobby. Dealers should understand that instead of squeezing their profits from a handful of people, they can earn the same money by increasing their sales volume. I hope for a win-win scenario for collectors and dealers alike.  ;)

Best Regards.
Kunal Jain

Offline sdchaugule

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2012, 04:46:05 PM »
Rarity differs from dealer to dealer and even from books to books. There are no real rare coins. There are error coins which dealers term them as rare.  The best thing for an individual to research for rare coins rather than depending on any particular book. These books are for general reference. Discussion and arguments in the forum will definitely help.

Offline PeaceBD

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2012, 05:13:59 PM »
This presents an interesting scenario and the dealer dicussion point about calling everything rare because it sells smacks of the good old days in ancient coins where dealer cartels caused "rarities" and jacked up the prices accordingly.


One of my observations has been that most of the coins sold by Indian auction houses are designated as "Rare" in item description. Some of the most common coins are designated "Scarce". None of the coins are common.  I find this as very unscrupulous way of baiting the newbie collectors and investors entering this rapidly growing field.
In the above mentioned scenario when knowledgeable collectors who know the true definition of rarity for certain series but keep quite and let the coins be misrepresented are also paying a price.
 An endeavor like this designating true rarity of coins based on old catalogs, past auction appearances and market availability etc involving not only Republic of India but Pre-independence Machine Stuck coinage will be very helpful to the Indian Numismatic hobby.

BD

Offline aarkay

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2012, 08:00:25 PM »
Hi…

My humble observation....rarity of any thing is in the eyes of the beholder...like contact lenses as P.G. Wodehouse's Bertie Wooster would have said to the inimitable Jeeves… :)

Aarkay

 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 09:02:09 PM by aarkay »
Why worry about dead yesterdays and unborn tomorrows….live in the present…a present for you today…

akona20

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2012, 11:03:55 PM »
We have a progressive younger member who is prepared to work on this project. I am sure there will be certain disagreements but no project is easy and cooperation by all members will ensure its success.

akona20

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2012, 11:17:50 PM »
Another member has now volunteered for working on projects.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2012, 11:49:41 PM »
I think Nirmal Kumar has hit upon something. Please allow me to ramble.

There is relative scarcity, which coins are harder to find than others. I think engipress is quite right to observe that this aspect is covered by catalogue pricing. Do we have an easy to find thread that helps newbies to get the information?

There is also absolute scarcity, which is usually indicated by S or up to four Rs. My take on this is here. ;) I would agree with those who said there is no scarce or rare post 1947 Indian coin as long as the statement does not include patterns.

I understand from previous posters that the real problem is not scarcity, but abuse of the terms scarce and rare. However, these terms are not defined. Also, the seller may have a cop-out in the sense that India does not publish mintage figures (or does it now?)

Maybe one thing to achieve would be a clear statement of which pieces are really scarce or rare. Maybe that list is very short. A second step could well go beyond scarcity. How about a covenant for Indian coin dealers? Something that would be really easy to live up to as long as you are honest. What I have in mind is something like:

- I agree that all coins are as described. Any error in description will entitle the buyer to a full refund if reported within [x days] of the sale. I will refund any coin that has not been taken from its original packaging.
- I agree to the list of scarce and rare coins below [list of coins] with the exception of the following [list of exceptions]. I will not describe any other post 1947 Indian coins as scarce or rare.
- I will not deduct any payment for coins until the coins are sent or collected from me.
- I guarantee that all coins I sell are genuine, except where clearly and explicitly marked as fake. I will refund any coin I have sold that turns out to be a fake within [x days] of the sale or forever, if I have published a picture of the coin.
- I guarantee that any picture I publish is of the coin I am selling, not a coin of the same type and that the picture is a fair reflection of the coin as it is.
- In case issues arise with the above, I accept arbitrage from a panel of members of World of Coins, one to be selected by me, one by the buyer and the third one to be selected by the nominated panel members.
- etc.

- In recognition of which, I have the right to carry the "approved by WoC, India section" logo on all my publicity as a guarantee to the buyers.


If you like this approach, remember that it takes an administrator to "sell" the covenant (we would want to have at least one big auction house on board), keep a list of those who have accepted it and set up an arbitration procedure in case of problems. It would make a lot of sense to me if that administrator would be Indian.

The above, including the wording of the covenant, is a suggestion only, nothing more.

Peter[/list][/list]
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 11:34:35 AM by Figleaf »
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Offline Coinsforever

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Re: Rarity index for indian coins
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2012, 05:55:44 AM »
Rarity differs from dealer to dealer and even from books to books. There are no real rare coins. There are error coins which dealers term them as rare.  The best thing for an individual to research for rare coins rather than depending on any particular book. These books are for general reference. Discussion and arguments in the forum will definitely help.

Well said , I fully agree .

Cheers ;D
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