Author Topic: Small 19mm cash coin to identify  (Read 3854 times)

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Offline capnbirdseye

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Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« on: June 28, 2012, 11:45:58 AM »
This one could be difficult to read, looks like Arabic or Turki script on the rev?
 it's small size may be a fractional denomination?
weight 1.12g     19mm
Vic

Offline weepio

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 10:41:17 PM »
Looks very much like Manchu on the back, coin is rotated 90 degrees to the right, something like boo yün or boo yuwan. So should be Qing dynastie 1644-1911, dive in it on the weekend some more.

Offline weepio

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 12:15:09 AM »
Judging on the few strokes to be found on the coin, I would go for the Jia Qing period 1796-1820.
It is known that in the last years of his reign (about 1815-1820) there were cast coins of a poorer quality and those coins often are smaller than normal. Also I would go for the Boo Yuwan (Board of Works, Beijing) on the reverse.

The coin is in a bad shape and also very common.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 12:32:51 AM »
I think you got it, weepio. Clever! I think I have seen this coin in brass only. Is the bronze variety harder to find?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2012, 04:37:43 PM »
Thank you Weepio, just got back from a weeks holiday where it rained from start to finish  >:D
 the wettest summer ever recorded for UK
Vic

Offline bgriff99

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 09:49:54 AM »
Hey, I'm working backward through old postings.   The copper color and 90 degree reverse rotation suggest Sinkiang, but the coin doesn't match anything from there.   It's not an official issue of the Board of Works or any mint with that crappy writing and low weight.    I suggest it's a contemporary forgery for circulation, and that if you scratch or file it, the metal is brass.   Allowed to sit in an envelope or the open air a brass coin can mysteriously develop a copper outer layer.    The lower the copper content the more it does so.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2014, 10:05:46 AM »
Would it still be Chinese?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline bgriff99

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2014, 11:01:52 AM »
If it's brass, then this kind of coin is dismissed as an Annamese forgery and pretty much beneath anybody's interest.   The calligraphy such as it is looks odd for that kind of piece.   More like something from Shensi or Kweichow.    Basically its a circulating forgery of Chinese, probably made in China.   If of copper, then something more odd.   It's not among listed Vietnamese private cash, which do not generally include late thin copies of Ching coins.    The varieties of those are beyond counting.   For circulating forgeries of Chia-ching, copies that are close would be considered collectible.

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2014, 12:47:24 PM »
I have two of these, definitely copper or if brass then a very high % of copper
Vic

Offline bgriff99

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2014, 07:24:46 PM »
I understand you don't want to do his but if you file into it you'll find brass underneath.   I'll look around to see if I have an example to show.

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2014, 09:05:49 PM »
I understand you don't want to do his but if you file into it you'll find brass underneath.   I'll look around to see if I have an example to show.

As the coin is of no value I scraped the surface to show that quite clearly it is pink copper!
Vic

Offline bgriff99

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2014, 11:20:27 PM »
Ok.   And ouch.   It's customary to do the scrape for analysis on the reverse at the top away from any characters.    The only place copper cash circulated was Sinkiang.  This piece is too small, of the wrong design to pass there, yet its mother cash was carved from scratch.   It could conceivably be made in northern Vietnam from mined copper, but even there lead was cheaper and would have been used.   That makes the cash a slightly dirty pale yellow color.   Essentially all forgeries of that era are made from Chinese brass cash melted down with lead added.

I'm going to stick with the deduction that your coin is brass underneath.   This happens all the time.  Somewhere I have a filed coin showing on a gradient how deep the copper layer can be, but couldn't find it.  Made a demo out of a 21mm cash comparable to yours from the melt sack, except probably genuine, and what yours nominally copied.   Chia-ching official cash were briefly as small as 18mm in mid-reign, during a financial emergency, after having been much larger and heavier just a couple years prior.  Thus the counterfeiting.   I filed deeper than necessary, but it shows the effect.   If you have a cleaned brass cash, it begins within a matter of weeks.    The official alloy of this coin is 54-43-3 copper, zinc, lead, pretty bad.   Strangely, the higher the zinc content the more it disappears from the surface.    Copper cost 4 times as much as zinc and lead.

Offline bgriff99

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Re: Small 19mm cash coin to identify
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2014, 11:28:36 PM »
The one you scratched is your second piece?    It looks more or less genuine.   What mint does it show?