Author Topic: UK local transportation tokens  (Read 88805 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #255 on: July 01, 2014, 11:21:35 AM »
Plenty of sheep in the Huddersfield arms, a textile town between Leeds and Manchester. Workers would have needed transportation to the job. Fortunately, they have high level support. The motto on the ribbon, Juvat impigros Deus, means god defends the diligent. So there.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #256 on: July 01, 2014, 11:33:17 AM »
Maybe Hull has changed. What I remember is a gritty town, smelling of tar and rotting fish. A place where people know what it means to get a living out of the sea. The token (it's uncompromisingly black, but my scanner cannot handle that) is utilitarian. Both sides are the same. No flourishes, not even serifs. My kind of place.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline andyg

  • Global Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 463
  • DERBYS · UK
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #257 on: July 01, 2014, 08:46:52 PM »
Good info on the Sunderland token. It is indeed a bit odd, compared to the others. If I have read the Sunderland article correctly, the Northern General busses would do at least partially the same routes as the Sunderland busses. Both issued non-round tokens, but they were different in size and colour.

The article states -
Quote
Admittedly, although tokens were not accepted on Northern General buses, the company did sell 12-journey tickets giving a similar discount.

Bus services were highly regulated until 1987 - so each company, be it municipal or commercial had their own "operating area", and if their routes strayed into another area (for example Northern running into Sunderland corporation area to serve the city) they were not allowed to board passengers.

Quote
It will be seen from the above that the token system is quite simple, administratively. (Representatives of Belfast City Transport recently inspected the Sunderland system.) As for the joint services in outer areas of the town, Sunderland Rural District—served by Northern group buses—was added to the County Borough on April 1, 1967.
However, the Northern group is now part of the NBC and under the Transport Act 1968, the group has the power to co-operate with neighbouring undertakings. Initially, talks are taking place with Northern concerning the acceptance of both tokens and SCT concessionary passes on joint services.

Nice comment about Belfast - they did indeed introduce a very similar token scheme....



More from 1972 here
http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/24th-november-1972/23/pte-fares-for-sunderland

Quote
Despite a generous discount (16 per cent), the use of fare tokens was reported to be diminishing; the system is losing about £.100,000 a year and the PTE would like to see it abandoned.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 09:00:47 PM by andyg »
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline andyg

  • Global Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 463
  • DERBYS · UK
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #258 on: July 01, 2014, 08:55:16 PM »
Wikipedia says Northern General expanded along the Newcastle-Gateshead-Chester-le-Street axis. Durham looks like a possibility at the outer edge only. Moreover, I can't imagine a token system for one school that is not even mentioned on the token, but I can easily imagine misreading how the school also used the tokens, so with all respect for Smith 2, I'll keep the mind open.

I would imagine the 3d was not in use at the same time as the 4d?
Durham education committee would have covered the county of Durham - not just Durham itself, Gateshead itself was in Durham county.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #259 on: July 01, 2014, 10:20:09 PM »
I think in this particular case Sunderland and Northern General did operate the same routes. From your linked article:

Quote
after some friction between Northern and SCT it was agreed that the two undertakings should operate on a 50:50 basis.

Quote
there was little incentive for people living on some of the outer estates to buy tokens worth 3.3d when the cash fare was only 4d and the first bus to come along was just as likely to be a "Northern" anyway.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline andyg

  • Global Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 463
  • DERBYS · UK
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #260 on: July 01, 2014, 11:02:10 PM »
the full quote is thus :

Quote
In 1951 Sunderland extended its boundaries quite considerably, and new housing estates were built beyond the old boundaries. The Northern General group of companies claimed that they should serve the new housing areas as they had been built in -Northern territory" and after some friction between Northern and SCT it was agreed that the two undertakings should operate on a 50:50 basis.

I read that it is only from said Northern housing estates that the 50/50 would apply.
Such pooling agreements were common - hence the "North Midland Transport Pool" which we still have not found out anything about!
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline malj1

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7 012
  • "illegitimi non carborundum"
    • Mals Machine Tokens
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #261 on: July 01, 2014, 11:36:41 PM »
See discussion here. T was changed from Tramways in Transport but logically, you can only have Aberdare Tramways Corporation (a public enterprise in Aberdare) or Aberdare Council Tramways (a service of the city council). The index will tell you at a glance that the Corporation formula was far more popular. Only London used the Council formula.

Peter

[Link doesn't work][link repaired]

Just received the Cox book which states:

The monogram ACT stands for Aberdare Council Tramways and which was already in place on the tunic buttons.

The tokens were first issued 1917 and continued in use, even though the trams stopped running in 1935, until they were replaced by the decimal issue in 1971.

The date of the 6d introduction has not been determined but was probably 1923/4.


« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 12:25:01 AM by Figleaf »
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #262 on: July 04, 2014, 03:53:00 PM »
A series of 22.225mm (7/8th inch) tokens from Leigh is here. These are 25mm (1 inch) tokens.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #263 on: July 04, 2014, 05:21:27 PM »
Morecambe and Heysham have grown together on the Lancashire coast, near Lancashire, but Morecambe has a shopping centre (the parking is almost empty on Google earth, making it look a bit sad), so it comes first.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #264 on: July 16, 2014, 11:45:19 PM »
Southend-on-sea is a serious town near Benfleet, where Norsemen and Saxons once bloodily clobbered each other for control of the mouth of the Thames. Yet, somehow, my brain keeps telling me Walmington-on-sea, where once, the Home Guard and the ARP were bad-mouthing each other for control of the vicar. :)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #265 on: July 17, 2014, 12:29:11 AM »
West Bromwich is a former miner's town. Its name will sound familiar to soccer enthusiasts. Here's how the miners got to work, in fruity colours.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7 012
  • "illegitimi non carborundum"
    • Mals Machine Tokens
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #266 on: July 17, 2014, 12:50:12 AM »
Southend-on-sea is a serious town near Benfleet, where Norsemen and Saxons once bloodily clobbered each other for control of the mouth of the Thames. Yet, somehow, my brain keeps telling me Walmington-on-sea, where once, the Home Guard and the ARP were bad-mouthing each other for control of the vicar. :)

Peter

When I was a schoolboy we knew this as Southend on mud, it is on the Thames estuary, mostly mud rather than sand, you could walk a mile or so out to sea with the water not reaching to you knees, hence the reason for the longest pier in England - 1.34 miles.



this pier has its own railway, see Southend Pier Railway but I am unaware if any tokens were used.

Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #267 on: July 17, 2014, 01:10:13 PM »
Southport seems to have had some doubts about decimalisation. It simply took the D off the pre-decimal token, but didn't add a P. The pre-decimal tokens are here.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #268 on: July 17, 2014, 01:34:04 PM »
Wodan's dyke was a simple version of Hadrian's wall. The district existed from 1974 to 1996.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 494
Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #269 on: July 18, 2014, 12:15:48 AM »
Here is an exceptional set of school tokens from Barrow-in-Furness. Voice mentions a colour variation of the tuppence, but otherwise, this series is complete. I like the little ink stain on the penny. :)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.