Author Topic: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958  (Read 8182 times)

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Offline Thruster853

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Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« on: April 03, 2012, 11:08:31 PM »
This is a USSR 5 Roubles of 1958 that I have had for many years. I believe that although struck in quite large numbers it was never issued for circulation.

I am curious as to why the Soviets even contemplated issuing such a large denomination at that time. Not since the 1920's had they issued any coin above 50 Kopecks, so why did they think it necessary in the late '50's? Was it for political or economic reasons? One hypothesis I have is that they were intended for payment of airport taxes and border crossing taxes that they charged rail passengers.

If they were never released into circulation, why did Khrushchev, or whoever was in charge of economic affairs, change their mind?

Offline chrisild

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2012, 12:09:51 AM »
Don't know about these coins, but the Schön confirms what you wrote: Initially millions of those 5 ruble coins were made, but they were never issued for circulation, and later got melted down. This also applies to the lower denominations made in 1958 (in Cu-Ni), except that only the 1 kopek to 1 ruble pieces were then issued again, with different alloys, while the 2, 3 and 5 ruble coins were not continued. No idea why ...

Christian

Offline Thruster853

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2012, 01:16:16 AM »
Very interesting, thank you.

Can anyone throw any more light on this piece?

Offline Prosit

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2012, 01:50:50 AM »
So this is one of those Russian coins that depended on who you knew to actually get one?
What a shame, it looks nice.
Dale


Don't know about these coins, but the Schön confirms what you wrote: Initially millions of those 5 ruble coins were made, but they were never issued for circulation, and later got melted down. This also applies to the lower denominations made in 1958 (in Cu-Ni), except that only the 1 kopek to 1 ruble pieces were then issued again, with different alloys, while the 2, 3 and 5 ruble coins were not continued. No idea why ...

Christian

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2012, 10:33:17 AM »
Can anyone throw any more light on this piece?

Not sure what else you are after...

obv: crossed hammer (industry) and sickle (agriculture) on a globe (communism as a global movement) in a wreath of ears of wheat (food) with a ribbon wound around the ears 17 times (number of constituent parts of the union) in a double circle. Союз Советских Социалистических Республик - Union of soviet socialist republics.
rev: denomination and date in wreath of oak (strength) and wheat

The English word soviet comes from the Russian word for council. Note also how the Russian word for republic (respublik) retains the s of the original res publica (public affairs) lost in the English version.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2012, 11:16:17 AM »
What his question was primarily about, I think, is why the higher denomination pieces were produced first, and then destroyed. If we look at the entire set, the denominations of 10 kopeks and above were first (in 1958) made as Cu-Ni coins. In the early 1960s, all denominations except the 2, 3 and 5 ruble coins were issued "again", this time with a nickel-brass composition.

So one could assume that the three latter pieces would have been issued with a modified alloy as well. But no, that did not happen. Which brings us back to the original question ...

Christian

Offline villa66

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2012, 12:30:08 PM »
This is a USSR 5 Roubles of 1958...I am curious as to why the Soviets even contemplated issuing such a large denomination at that time...If they were never released into circulation, why did Khrushchev, or whoever was in charge of economic affairs, change their mind?

I have no idea of the lead time involved, but you might factor into your thinking the relative nearness of the 1961 revaluation. (The value of the ruble may have been at low ebb, and a 5-ruble piece may not have been the high value it would have been just a few years later.) And there is the additional complication of the way the Soviets treated coins and paper money during the previous revaluation of the '40s, altering the value of the paper money but leaving the nominal value of (some?) coins unmolested--thus giving coins' owners a minor windfall. I believe there was a repeat of that during the '61 revaluation, but don't really know offhand. Sorry.

There are, however, at least a couple of folks here who know modern Russian/Soviet coins inside out. Maybe they can say more, and with much more certainty.

Nice coin!

 :) v.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2012, 06:37:19 PM »
Note also how the Russian word for republic (respublik) retains the s of the original res publica (public affairs) lost in the English version.

[pedant]
It also retains the -a of the Latin and the feminine gender. The nominative singular is pеспубликa. Республик is the genitive plural (Union of ... Republics).
[/pedant]

Offline natko

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2012, 07:34:10 PM »
Russians always liked big stuff. Their country is huge, lot of space, that might be one reason. They're known to produce 5 and 10 kopeks, among largest copper coins ever. Especially communism, industrialization and especially new rise of the Soviet Union after WWII let to project with excessive architecture, high scale urban planning, everything was big. Maybe they wanted to create a currency that impress you same moment when you take it in your hands. True question is why it wasn't released, like all of the 1958 coins. Probably as it wasn't practical. So, who cares...you've got smaller denominations.

Those '58 series seem to be ultimately rare, selling for thousands of dollars. I've seen only fakes that look like originals on photos. Would be very careful obtaining those.

Offline ciscoins

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 06:40:07 PM »
Not since the 1920's had they issued any coin above 50 Kopecks, so why did they think it necessary in the late '50's? Was it for political or economic reasons? One hypothesis I have is that they were intended for payment of airport taxes and border crossing taxes that they charged rail passengers.

2, 3 and 5 roubles were made for vending machines. Khruschev was turned on the idea of selling everything (milk, bread, etc.) through vending machines, without human sellers. But after the testing period it became clear that these machines were too unreliable and often broke, so the program was phased out.
Ivan
Moscow, Russia

Offline chrisild

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 06:41:44 AM »
Now that is interesting. :) Thanks for the explanation!

Christian

Offline ciscoins

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2012, 03:33:07 PM »
And for the testing period these vending machines were using special tokens with numbers and the inscription "Ministry of Trade -- USSR"

http://oldcoffer.narod.ru/Token/Mintorg/mintorg.htm
Ivan
Moscow, Russia

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2012, 05:48:17 PM »
Never seen those before! Are they rare?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline ciscoins

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2012, 02:49:43 AM »
Never seen those before! Are they rare?

Peter

Some people collect these tokens together with Soviet coins. If I´m not mistaken, most of the tokens are rather common, but it´s very hard to find some of the numbers. And much harder to find all the types of each number. When I return home in the end of May, I´ll try to get more objective information on this topic.
Ivan
Moscow, Russia

Offline Harald

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Re: Soviet 5 Roubles 1958
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2012, 08:47:36 PM »
This is a USSR 5 Roubles of 1958 that I have had for many years. I believe that although struck in quite large numbers it was never issued for circulation.

I am curious as to why the Soviets even contemplated issuing such a large denomination at that time. Not since the 1920's had they issued any coin above 50 Kopecks, so why did they think it necessary in the late '50's? Was it for political or economic reasons? One hypothesis I have is that they were intended for payment of airport taxes and border crossing taxes that they charged rail passengers.

If they were never released into circulation, why did Khrushchev, or whoever was in charge of economic affairs, change their mind?

There was a currency reform done in 1961, that's why the entire coinage went to the melting pot.
The denomination of 5 rubles 1958 was not so large (the official rate was 4 rubles to the US$). After the reform a 1 ruble coin was issued,
which corresponded to 10 pre-reform rubles (or, due to the devaluation, to 1.11 US$).

cheers
--
Harald
http://www.liganda.ch (monetary history & numismatic linguistics)