Author Topic: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov  (Read 10119 times)

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Offline Overlord

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Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« on: March 01, 2008, 12:46:31 PM »
This rather poor example is the only wire kopek in my collection. If I'm correct, these interesting coins were created by hammering a silver wire between a set of dies.



Online Figleaf

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2009, 01:03:10 PM »
Got a reaction from a Russian friend:

This is a coin of tsar Mikhail Fedorovich (1613-1645)
Denomination: Kopeck
Mint: Moskow
Date: ~before 1620
Legends:
Obv: (Moskow, in two lines)
Rev: (Tsar and Grand Prince Mikhail Fedorovitch of All Russia)
Lit: A.S.Melnikova, dies 3-9
Kleschshinov and Grishin 340, dies 1-12
Rarity: common


My Russian is not good enough to judge if the text is correct, but your coin would have looked something like the reconstruction on the picture. The Mint mark M under the horse becomes visible once you know where to look.

The rider is St. George, making dragon kebab. Russia used this device long before Pistrucci put it on a British coin. The device is still used on the Moscow arms (picture) as well as on on the federal arms, where it is the breast shield of the spread eagle.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 02:04:06 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline bruce61813

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2009, 04:59:44 PM »
I happen to have one, and in pretty decent condition.

Bruce

Online Figleaf

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2009, 06:50:09 PM »
With lots of patience, you should be able to find your coin in the scanned catalog of coins of Michael here. The modus operandi of this site is:

a) click on thumbnail of page
b) click on part of page you want to see
c) scroll
d) use your browser's "back one page" function to see another page

I have found that it is easiest (but not easy) to find a match for the text first, see with wich obverses the reverse is combined (there are some illustrations in the text connecting die numbers) and find the reverse die.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2009, 10:08:50 PM »
I happen to have one, and in pretty decent condition.

Bruce

Bruce's one (identified as Peter I according to the filename) looks correct - I can see the letters ETR (from PETR = Peter) and EXE (from Alexeyevich) pretty clearly on the image. 


BC Numismatics

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2009, 01:08:52 AM »
This rather poor example is the only wire kopek in my collection. If I'm correct, these interesting coins were created by hammering a silver wire between a set of dies.




Amit,
  These 1 Kopeck coins were actually struck from planchets that were cut off the end of a silver wire.The word 'Rouble' is derived from the word 'Rubit',which is referring to the offcut from a silver wire.

Aidan.

Offline Overlord

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 05:35:50 PM »
Wow, I had missed the replies posted in this thread entirely! Thanks a ton, Peter.

Offline RVCOINS

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 07:04:14 PM »
If you want to buy one of the twelve pieces click on the link below

http://shop.ebay.nl/numismatiklanz/m.html?_nkw=russland&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3911.m270.l1313&_odkw=&_osacat=0

Regards

RVCOINS

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2009, 03:30:52 AM »
Got a reaction from a Russian friend:

This is a coin of tsar Mikhail Fedorovich (1613-1645)
Denomination: Kopeck
Mint: Moskow
Date: ~before 1620
Legends:
Obv: (Moskow, in two lines)
Rev: (Tsar and Grand Prince Mikhail Fedorovitch of All Russia)
Lit: A.S.Melnikova, dies 3-9
Kleschshinov and Grishin 340, dies 1-12
Rarity: common


My Russian is not good enough to judge if the text is correct, but your coin would have looked something like the reconstruction on the picture. The Mint mark M under the horse becomes visible once you know where to look.

The rider is St. George, making dragon kebab. Russia used this device long before Pistrucci put it on a British coin. The device is still used on the Moscow arms (picture) as well as on on the federal arms, where it is the breast shield of the spread eagle.

Peter

Nice image Peter. I have a catalog for wire coins with images like the ones you posted. Most times I find photos of coins better than rendered images, but since most real wire coins have detail missing, renderings are actually better. Rendered images will present all the detail that is supposed to be on the coins and people can use this to identify the coins they have in there possesion. The color-plate is also beautiful with the St. George mounted on horseback slaying a dragon. This seemed to be a standard for wire coins as far back as the 15th century and used up the reign of Tsar: Peter I~The Great.

~Daniel
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 04:19:53 AM by Zantetsuken »

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 03:39:27 AM »
I happen to have one, and in pretty decent condition.

Bruce

Very nice indeed Bruce. It's hard to find wire coins with such a solid image. Here is my specimen of a wire kopek. Although slightly off-center, the image is fairly sharp.

~Daniel



RUSSIA (MUSCOVY)~ AR Kopek 1613-1645

Offline bruce61813

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 04:53:02 PM »
All I can say is Wow! That is a great looking wire Kopek. I don't collect them but i have not seen many with the full inscription. Were the dies made for larger coins and the Kopeks tossed in as small flans?

Bruce

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Russia: Silver wire kopek of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 01:23:57 AM »
All I can say is Wow! That is a great looking wire Kopek. I don't collect them but i have not seen many with the full inscription. Were the dies made for larger coins and the Kopeks tossed in as small flans?

Bruce

To be honest, I'm not quite sure. My guess is that they cut the silver and or copper wire to the length required to equal the value of the coin. Then they heat the bits of wire, then hammer it with the dies. As we've seen on this thread, the results vary. Sometimes you get a very poor or sloppy strike with an uneven image, others yield better results with a strong image and legible text. However I've yet to see a wire coin with a full image. Judging by the size of average wire coin, the dies would be roughly 10-12 mm in diameter. Anyone is free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points.


~Daniel