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Author Topic: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine  (Read 16920 times)

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Offline Harry

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Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« on: January 13, 2012, 08:10:37 PM »
Quote from: Dr. Johnson C. Philip on January 13, 2012, 07:13:53 PM

By the way, do you own a genuine 1939 BI silver rupee? I am trying to collect scans of genuine coins and thus the question.


Shastri, unfortunately I do not.   I am about 18 coins away from completing a full type set for business strike British India Regal Issue (1862-1947) in Unc.  As for the 1939 Rupee, I'm skipping that and going for a 1938 Rupee for that type.  The 1939 Rupee is not even on my want list right now. The toughest one on my want list is the 1911 1/2 Rupee, I know that I will not be able to get it in Unc for sure.  The King George V 15 Rupee is also another item on my list, not rare, but expensive! I'm going to have to sell some of my US notes for this.   Fortunately, I do have some common ones on my BI want list so that will keep me busy for a bit before I hit the wall!
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Offline Abhay

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Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 01:40:38 AM »
Quote from: Dr. Johnson C. Philip on January 13, 2012, 07:13:53 PM

By the way, do you own a genuine 1939 BI silver rupee? I am trying to collect scans of genuine coins and thus the question.

-- Shastri

Dear Dr. Shastri,

I don't have Genuine 1939 rupee, but the images are available from Todywala auction.

The coin without the ANACS holder is up for auction at Nagpur and the starting bid is Rs. 2.80 Lac.

Here is my FAKE 1939 rupee for comparison.

Abhay
 
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Offline Figleaf

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Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 02:09:59 AM »
How do you know yours is a fake, Abhay?

Peter
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 11:28:56 AM by Figleaf »
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Offline Abhay

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 04:16:41 AM »
Quote from: Figleaf on January 14, 2012, 02:09:59 AM
How do you now yours is a fake, Abhay?

Peter

The dealer, from whom I purchased this coin sold me this as a Fake.
Moreover, the price I paid for this coin was just Rs. 500 (Approx USD 10.00) about 4-5 years ago.
But yes, the quality is very good, and at first look, it seems like a Genuine Coin.

Abhay
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Offline Md. Shariful Islam

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 04:34:26 AM »
Abhay Daa, what is the weight and what metal is it made of please? My guess is it is tooled one.
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Offline PeaceBD

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 07:26:48 AM »
Quote from: engipress on January 14, 2012, 01:40:38 AM

The coin without the ANACS holder is up for auction at Nagpur and the starting bid is Rs. 2.80 Lac.

Abhay
 

Abhay, is it a common practice for coins previously identified/ graded as cleaned/ whizzed/ tooled/ altered to appear in Indian auctions as raw offerings? Did the auction house disclose the past history of this coin in the lot description?

Thanks
Bhushan
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Offline Abhay

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 07:40:25 AM »
Bhushan, I think you got me wrong. The two coins that I have shown above are both different. The Graded coin was recently sold at Pune Auction for Rs. 3.30 Lacs and the other coin is for sale in Nagpur Auction on 27th Jan, 2012. The opening bid is Rs. 2.20 Lacs. No bid received online till now.

Abhay
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Offline PeaceBD

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 07:47:55 AM »
Quote from: engipress on January 14, 2012, 07:40:25 AM
Bhushan, I think you got me wrong. The two coins that I have shown above are both different. The Graded coin was recently sold at Pune Auction for Rs. 3.30 Lacs and the other coin is for sale in Nagpur Auction on 27th Jan, 2012. The opening bid is Rs. 2.20 Lacs. No bid received online till now.

Abhay
Abhay, thanks for clearing that up. I thought the ANACS slabbed problem coin was appearing without the holder for auction now.
Thanks
Bhushan
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 11:28:17 AM »
Thank you, Tanka. You are quite right. It is tooled. I completely overlooked the size and shape of the second 9 in the date. Compare with the first 9 and you can see immediately that this is a fake.

Peter
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Offline Shastri JC Philip

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 06:24:27 PM »
Abhay, thanks for your note and pictures. I have picked up "Coin forgery" as one of the areas to specialize in numismatics and each picture/input is helpful.

The 1939 coin displayed by you is clearly a cast coin, but made well. Just yesterday I purchased a  1939 forgery, but costs have gone up considerably even for good forgeries. I will be posting pictures in a day.

By the way 1911 half rupee forgeries from Thailand have now landed in India via Calcutta coin fair. I acquired one of these yesterday and will post pictures very  soon.

Friends here who have fake coins in their collection are requested to help me with my studies. I solicit pictures of these coins scanned at 1200 dpi or higher resolution. Alternately, digital pictures taken at 5mega pixels or higher would be a great help.

-- Shastri
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Offline Md. Shariful Islam

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 06:55:54 PM »
Quote from: Dr. Johnson C. Philip on January 14, 2012, 06:24:27 PM

Friends here who have fake coins in their collection are requested to help me with my studies.

-- Shastri

Dr. Shastri,

You will find three examples at least here:
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9305.0.html

Islam
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Offline Oesho

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 12:21:32 AM »
The fake 1939 rupee, as shown above, is made by retooling the '8' of a 1938 rupee of Calcutta! (the Bombay bead privy mark is missing below the roset) into a 9. Typical dentist work.
Only Bombay mint produced currency issues for the year 1939, of the Calcutta mint only proof issues are known.
The coin is not cast or whatsoever, but a genuine coin with a retooled date and of course therefore a forgery.
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akona20

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2012, 01:02:40 AM »
Oesho is as usual correct on this.

The retooling is rather good and would fool many. Knowledge is the key providing it is used correctly. The technical for this is forgery.
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Offline Abhay

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2012, 02:33:06 AM »
@ Oesho - So, you mean the coin is genuine 1938 coin, on which the 8 has been converted to 9. Maybe, this explains the fine details on the coin, and it looks so real.

Abhay
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akona20

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Re: Rupee 1939, genuine and less genuine
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2012, 03:18:57 AM »
Exactly Abhay. Look closely at it and other real coins. The altering is on the one digit in the date only. This is a fine and cunning piece of work.
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