Author Topic: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield  (Read 3753 times)

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Online Figleaf

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John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« on: December 13, 2011, 12:33:06 AM »
Loot from a recent visit to the Charing Cross coin market. A brass, scalloped penny token. The reverse seems (machine?) engraved, rather than counterstamped.

The department store of John Banner in Sheffield is mentioned in Wikipedia as a shuttered remnant from what was once a thriving neighbourhood and now a part of Sheffield that could use some gentrification.

I have no idea of what a posh department store would need a penny token for. Discount coupon?

Peter
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Offline malj1

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 01:02:31 AM »
I found a small snippet on these...

.....They used to have some kind of a cheque system of their own with banners tokens but don't remember how it worked.
You used to get a Banners cheque for 20 & pay back 21 but when you went into Banners to spend it, any change you got was in their own money so you had to spend it all in their shop.Good eh.


Many of these larger department stores had discount checks that worked in a similar fashion to the co-op society dividend checks.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 01:13:07 AM by malj1 »
Malcolm
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Offline africancoins

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 01:08:04 AM »
This must be a listed building - that will be why the name is still on the fascia in several places. It is a long time since it was a dept store. The "JB" is always stamped on the - stamped seemingly as I have sometimes seen weakneed to the stamping as you would not get with engraving. There are about 5 denominations (halfpenny to shilling) maybe more and the Penny is the easiest to find. There were other big shops in the area with there own tokens but those tokens are difficult to find.

So why have tokens in such a shop.... well what if the someone had been given a voucher (say at some stage 50 to 70 years ago - around the time of rationing etc..) to spend money in the big shop - if the full amount was not going to be all spent up in one visit then the shop's tokens could be given in change to ensure that the rest of the amount was spent in store and nowhere else.

(I see malj1 has just posted... no need to change my post)... add our posts together to get the best answer.....

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Online Figleaf

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 01:21:23 AM »
Thank you, gentlemen. Nice teamwork.

The other side is not affected by the JB logo, which I would have expected from a counterstamp. However, the design is too regular to have been done by hand. Could the weakness be wear?

The building does look like it is worth preserving. I am reminded of another sinking palace, Whiteleys in Bayswater. A grand piece of architecture, half filled with shops fighting for their life in an area that has seen better times.

Peter
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Offline malj1

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 09:30:54 AM »
I have four of the 1d with a variety in copper and with two varieties in the style of the 1 in 1d.

The reverse are shown together to show the stamping of the JB in oblong with one appearing to be weakly struck and possibly without the oblong border.

The different 1 variety is the one that is weakly struck; other variations in this token are noted too.

I wonder could this be a forgery? and thus the JB stamps were used to revalidate the tokens at some time ???



Malcolm
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Offline malj1

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 09:51:57 AM »
I found a small snippet on these...

.....They used to have some kind of a cheque system of their own with banners tokens but don't remember how it worked.
You used to get a Banners cheque for 20 & pay back 21 but when you went into Banners to spend it, any change you got was in their own money so you had to spend it all in their shop.Good eh.


See this page for a description of the credit system employed; no doubt Banners used the same one.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 11:50:31 AM by malj1 »
Malcolm
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Offline malj1

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 04:26:39 AM »
At last I have another value, this time an octagonal brass 3d, 22mm, with the usual weakly struck JB in oblong stamp on reverse.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline malj1

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2019, 07:58:18 AM »
I have now added two further values 6d and 1/- (one shilling for the not so old) (or 5p!)

both scalloped aluminium 19.3 and 22.3mm respectively. Both have the usual JB in oblong stamped on the reverse.

BTW the penny measures 29mm
Malcolm
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Online Figleaf

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2019, 09:03:07 AM »
Admirable collecting, malj1. Might I suggest adding the series to the British shop tokens on WoT?

Perhaps it is not a coincidence that the yellow/brownish denominations reflect copper and brass coins in circulation, while the white tokens carry denominations of white metal coins. In that case, the series would have been issued after the introduction of the brass threepence.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2019, 09:30:54 AM »
Almost ready to post to WoT. I have confirmed there is a halfpenny value and now have an image, albeit B/W ! ...size and metal unknown.

Found further information.

John Banner founded the business in 1873. The shop moved to Attercliffe Road in 1894, and was replaced by the present building in 1934. It was the first building in Sheffield to have escalators.

With the local population having dwindled with local housing being demolished in the '70s, so did the business, and it finally closed in 1980.

From this it would appear that the tokens may have been issued earlier than the birth of the brass threepence in 1937.
Malcolm
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Offline brandm24

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2019, 10:14:16 AM »
That's a nice series of tokens, Mal. A very impressive collection.

I would think the "JB" stamps were struck lightly as not to distort the design on the other side. That would probably account for the weak areas shown on some examples.

Bruce
Bruce

Offline malj1

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2019, 06:33:27 AM »
I have now uploaded these to WoT

 :thumbsup:
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline malj1

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2019, 12:49:59 PM »
Updated the file already having found images of varieties of the two shillings in both aluminium and zinc on an older post of DNW.

John Banner, 2 Shillings (2, zinc and aluminium), aluminium Sixpence, brass Threepence,
Pennies (3, different, brass [2] and copper), brass Halfpenny, mixed sizes, 19-31mm;


Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Online Figleaf

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2019, 03:40:43 PM »
That page is hommage to those who are constructing WoT. A slow process of bringing together pictures, background, knowledge and an accessible format to catalogue numismatic items that are worthy of being preserved and collected because they are part of history, culture and the national memory. Let many be inspired to do a page themselves. The support framework is there.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: John Banner, Attercliffe, Sheffield
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2019, 06:20:08 AM »
I have discovered a decimal system of John Banner tokens also exist, from Sheffield Museum's Display Location: Weston Park Museum

The museums comment:

 John Banner’s department store opened in 1894 on Attercliffe Road. This was a busy shopping street, serving the thousands of people who lived in the surrounding area. The building was redeveloped in the 1930s and is still standing today, although Banners closed in the 1980s. The shop used an in-store cheque and money system to help people pay for goods. An agent would call at the customer’s house and an amount of credit would be agreed. They were given a John Banner cheque which they could spend in the store. Any change would be given in store tokens to make sure the full amount was spent with them. The customer would then pay back the credit, with interest, in weekly instalments.

Values shown are 5p, yellow; 10p, dark olive green; 50p, red; 2, cream. No doubt a 1 would also exist   ???
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 07:12:26 AM by malj1 »
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.