Author Topic: Emperor Gao Zhong (1736-95), Cash (1754-60 AD), Hartill#22.254  (Read 1984 times)

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Offline Overlord

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Emperor Gao Zhong (1736-95), Cash (1754-60 AD), Hartill#22.254
« on: October 30, 2011, 11:03:53 AM »
My second coin.

Based on the characters and the size, I think this is Hartill#22.254 (Emperor Gao Zhong, The Board of Works, type B). Please correct me if I have something wrong.

Mass=4.0 g
Diameter=24 mm

Obverse  Qian (Top) Long (Bottom) tong (Right) bao (Left)


Reverse Boo (Left) yuwan (Right)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Emperor Gao Zhong (1736-95), Cash (1754-60 AD), Hartill#22.254
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2011, 02:17:03 PM »
So there are apparently over 250 variants of this coin? Impressive, that someone has figured it all out.

I thought the production started with making a mould with a seed coin. If so, there would be as many variants as seed coins. However, I can't understand why you'd need over 250 of them. Wear from use would be minimal.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline weepio

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Re: Emperor Gao Zhong (1736-95), Cash (1754-60 AD), Hartill#22.254
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2011, 06:49:47 PM »
Why do you think there are over 250 variants of this coin. The number indicates chapter 22 (Qing dynastie) coin number 254. Hartill starts with the first coins of the Qing dynastie (those of Nurhachi 1616-1626).

On coin 22.2 (which is completely in Manchu writing) is Abkai Fulingga Han Jiha.
Coin 22.6 is the Chinese version of this coin Tian Ming Tong Bao

There are actually 238 different coins of this emperor described in Hartill's catalogue, but this includes every coin made by this emperor, including of course every mintmark. He reigned for over 60 years, it's only 4 coins a year, comparing this with two zloty coins from poland, there should be over 1000 different coins.   

Offline bgriff99

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Re: Emperor Gao Zhong (1736-95), Cash (1754-60 AD), Hartill#22.254
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 08:38:06 AM »
The large number of variants comes from changing the design incrementally every year.   In lieu of putting dates on them.    The Board of Works had 3 foundries which were given separate designs in the 45th year of Qian Long and retained until the end of the dynasty.   The Board of Revenue was divided into 4 separately marked designs in the 23rd year.   There were periodic issues of larger "palace cash", plus 5 or 6 years of posthumous Qian Long coins.    The reign lasted 60 years.   That's 296 nominal varieties of Qian Long for Beijing alone, not counting palace cash, or a dozen incidental oddities.   But may be effectively reduced in some years when the changes were either infinitesimal or not at all.   Hartill breaks them down into what might be called all discernible varieties, where a full year chart, as rubbings, would leave the reader seeing indecipherable repeats of years

Supposedly the mother cash were replaced twice yearly.   They were also brass and did wear out from handling.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Emperor Gao Zhong (1736-95), Cash (1754-60 AD), Hartill#22.254
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 04:39:42 PM »
Believe it or not, but I am finally starting to understand this. ;)

The system is akin to the "secret marks" on medieval European coins, like a dot under a letter to denote either a mint or an issue (usually different issues had  a slightly different silver content, but they are as close to a date as you can get on a medieval coin). There is even a case of a spelling mistake to distinguish the same coin for different rulers of the same name.

Funnily, if the weight/metal content is the same, there is no reason for the secrecy, except maybe to bolster the ego of those who know what the "secret marks" are. In medieval Europe, secret marks served to let mints filter out high quality coins for re-melting.

It must be unbelievably difficult to connect these marks on Chinese coins with dates.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline bgriff99

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Re: Emperor Gao Zhong (1736-95), Cash (1754-60 AD), Hartill#22.254
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 06:39:51 AM »
Regarding figuring out the years, doing Qian-long was incredibly low hanging numismatic fruit.   I mean, those things are the Lincoln cents of cash coins.   Once getting the 4 submints' marks figured out, the year order fell right into line.