Author Topic: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"  (Read 7975 times)

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Offline <k>

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Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« on: September 11, 2011, 11:37:17 PM »
Parent topic:  Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey


The parent topic (above) gives an overview of Jersey's coinage since decimalisation. Please post any comments, questions or corrections here.
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Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2015, 09:53:01 PM »
Just one thing: The only £1 coin design in the "Shipbuilding" series that has been repeated is the Resolute.  Jersey had no standard £1 coin design, and so as the last ship design used, the Resolute from 1994 was repeated for the 1997 mint set and all subsequent circulation issues (1997, 1998, 2003, 2005 and 2006).  Presumably the design will finally be replaced for the new £1 coin in 2017.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 11:06:34 PM by Alan71 »

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2015, 10:55:46 PM »
Well spotted, Alan. I've amended the relevant post and included your comment.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 09:50:55 PM by <k> »
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Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 01:37:32 PM »
Thank you.

Jersey have actually had 19 reverse designs for their £1 coins in total, issued from 1983 to 1994.  12 for the Parish Emblems series and seven for the Shipbuilding.  Two were issued each year apart from 1983, 1989 and 1994 when just one was issued, and 1990 (none at all).

The Parish Emblems were issued in the order of population, from highest to lowest (based on the 1981 Jersey census).

The full list is:
1983 - St Helier
1984 - St Saviour
1984 - St Brelade
1985 - St Clement
1985 - St Lawrence
1986 - St Peter
1986 - Grouville
1987 - St Martin
1987 - St Ouen
1988 - Trinity
1988 - St John
1989 - St Mary

1991 - The Tickler
1991 - Percy Douglas
1992 - The Hebe
1992 - Bailiwick Seal, as it would have looked in the 19th century when these ships were built
1993 - The Gemini
1993 - The Century
1994 - Resolute

As the last in the series produced, the Resolute design has, by default, been carried over and used for all £1 coins issued since 1994, ie. 1997, 1998, 2003, 2005 and 2006.  It's unlikely that it was intended to become the standard reverse design, but in the absence of a definitive design, it has become just that.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2016, 04:17:23 PM »
Jersey is not planning to issue circulating coins in 2016 as they have sufficient stocks. There are no plans to introduce the fifth effigy of Queen Elizabeth II by Jody Clark on their coins. Furthermore they are not planning to introduce a new 1 pound coin, like the UK.

Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2016, 09:32:15 PM »
Well, their last issue was "only" 2012 so not too surprised about no 2016 coins.  Also not too surprised about the portrait.  They never adopted the Maklouf one and the new one isn't much different to the Rank-Broadley.

However, I am surprised about the £1 coin.  They have always issued the same coins as the UK since decimalisation (as it is apparently a variation of sterling and not a separate currency pegged to the pound).  It's true that, as they use the £1 note still, you don't see too many Jersey £1 coins, but instead there are vast numbers of the UK £1 coin in circulation there.  UK holidaymakers will expect to be able to use their UK coinage there so the new £1 coin will find itself in daily use across the island. Jersey did issue the £2 coin in 1998 even though it's rarely seen in circulation there.  I find it very hard to believe that they're not going to do this coin.

In my experience (I tend to go there every five years or so), Jersey coinage is becoming scarce.  As a collector I always look though change and am usually disappointed when it's 90% UK coins.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2016, 10:08:49 PM »
I guess you are right about that, though the information is 100% correct as it was given to me by the Currency Manager of the Ministry of Finance of Jersey, who I contacted earlier today. Of course things may change in the future but as no discussions about the introduction of such coin have taken place, I guess it certainly won't be next year.

Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2016, 10:24:54 PM »
Plus will the Royal Mint really want to keep their old £1 coin presses just for the crown dependencies (and possibly the overseas territories they produce coins for)?  If Jersey doesn't issue the new £1 then it's unlikely Guernsey would (as they generally copy each other).

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2016, 10:38:30 PM »
They have always issued the same coins as the UK since decimalisation (as it is apparently a variation of sterling and not a separate currency pegged to the pound).

I used to think that too, until the vote on Scottish independence came up in Scotland. The Scottish Nationalists (SNP) said that, if they won the vote, they would keep the pound and keep the Queen. Not so fast, said the UK chancellor, George Osborne. You'd have to use a currency board, as Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man and Gibraltar do. Until I heard that, I believed the statements from Guernsey, etc., that there was no such thing as a Guernsey pound - and you could read the same things on Wikipedia. So, I thought - the SNP did not contradict George Osborne - so who should I believe: the UK chancellor, who ought to know about these things, or Wikipedia? I did a little research and found this:

The Currency Systems of the United Kingdom Periphery.

It concludes that the financial affairs of the Crown Dependencies are not as transparent as they could be, but their arrangements looked distinctly "currency-board-like".

See also this article from 2013:

Scotland's currency options: a 'hard' currency?

Quote: "Crown dependencies (Guernsey and Jersey) have currency board like arrangements".

So, it seems the chancellor was indeed right, and the Crown Dependencies do in effect maintain separate currencies from the UK - though their value is kept at par.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 09:54:21 PM by <k> »
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Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2016, 11:32:03 PM »
^^ The Wikipedia source appears to be ISO4217 which apparently doesn't include a separate currency code for each of the Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man £1, but does for the overseas territories using the pound.  Apparently the reason for this is:

A number of currencies are not included in ISO 4217, because these currencies are: (a) minor currencies pegged 1:1 to a larger currency, even if independently regulated (b) a legal tender only issued as commemorative banknotes or coinage, or (c) a currency of an unrecognized or partially recognized state.

Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man must fall under (a) but if that's the case, then surely so do Gibraltar, Falkland Islands and St Helena-Ascension? But officially not.

Offline <k>

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2016, 11:39:10 PM »
Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man must fall under (a) but if that's the case, then surely so do Gibraltar, Falkland Islands and St Helena-Ascension? But officially not.

That is correct. Gibraltar, the Falkland Islands and St Helena-Ascension each use a currency board.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 09:35:05 PM by <k> »
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Offline Pabitra

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2016, 04:10:32 AM »
Plus will the Royal Mint really want to keep their old £1 coin presses just for the crown dependencies (and possibly the overseas territories they produce coins for)?

Are the presses coin specific?
I thought that striking presses were generic and could be switched to any coin by using punch/ die.

Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2016, 01:36:49 PM »
I must admit I'm no expert! 

I think what will probably happen is that all the current £1 coins will be called in and there will be a new Jersey £1 coin but, like the £2, it will rarely (if ever) be seen in circulation.  Instead there will be their £1 note and new UK £1 coins.  I'd be surprised if they really do keep their own.  Falklands and St Helena-Ascension have often not issued their versions of small 5p/10p/50p and bi-metal £2 coins at the same time as the UK but later fallen into line.  The Falklands took eight years to reduce the size of their 5p, for example (1998 after the UK had done so in 1990).

If they really don't issue it, then they will end up with two types of £1 coin in circulation, unless they suddenly make UK coinage no longer usable in Jersey.  That wouldn't be a bad idea actually, although inconvenient.

Offline Pabitra

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2016, 03:28:31 PM »
Current 1 £ coins may not be called in, as was done for 5 and 10p.
In their case, cost of recovered material made the whole exercise financially viable.
In case of round pound, the recovered material may not be worth 1 £.

Offline Alan71

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Re: Comments on "Milestones in the decimal coinage of Jersey"
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2016, 11:00:21 PM »
Is nickel-brass not worth that much then, in comparison to cupro-nickel?

I really can't see them keeping the old coins for the islands.  The Falklands and St Helena-Ascension are a different matter as their remoteness from the UK means that not that many UK coins are going to find their way into circulation there (and both have delayed issues of previous new coins).  Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man and, to a slightly lesser extent Gibraltar, have so many visitors from the UK that it would be impossible to keep the old £1 coin going.  Each territory would have both types of coin in circulation. 

I'm assuming the Royal Mint just hasn't properly consulted them on it yet - the Royal Mint of today only seems to be concerned with selling "fluff" (as a member here memorably put it in another topic) at high prices to gullible people who think they can make loads of money selling them on to even more gullible buyers on eBay...