Author Topic: Some coins from USSR 1974  (Read 8525 times)

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Offline $$

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Some coins from USSR 1974
« on: August 31, 2011, 09:36:52 AM »
Dear All

Need your advise and suggestion on this

I received this set from friend on this sunday.

This has some of 10 UNC coin in plastic cover (laminated)

Just to confirm whether is the proof set or ........... If it is valuable then please PM me

samir
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Offline gxseries

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2011, 04:49:00 PM »
I recommand you NOT to remove the coins from the mintset unless it's damaged.

These coins are actually more valuable than coins that are in hard plastic set instead of the cellophane because coins that are in the hard plastic case seem to tarnish much easier than the coins in cellophane.

I've seen it averaging around 200USD - it's less common than what most people think.

Offline Bimat

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Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2011, 04:50:47 PM »
Dear Samir, can you post a higher resolution picture? It's very hard to judge from small scan.

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Offline Abhay

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2011, 05:14:15 PM »
Dear Samir,

Why don't you CROP the images before posting? (Cropping means removing the unnecessary portion of the image, so as to make it more relevant). This way, the image resolution will be much higher and better.

Abhay
INVESTING IN YESTERDAY

Offline Coinsforever

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2011, 11:28:52 PM »
Dear All

Need your advise and suggestion on this

I received this set from friend on this sunday.

This has some of 10 UNC coin in plastic cover (laminated)

Just to confirm whether is the proof set or ........... If it is valuable then please PM me

samir


For better assesment it would be recommended to focus on each coin seperately & post the 10 images seperately.

Cheers ;D
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



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Offline gxseries

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 12:06:58 AM »
There is no need to go too extreme as what people are suggesting here.

As I mentioned about the price, it should be around 200USD easily. I don't know what Krause says on it but if it's much lower than that, I'm VERY interested to buy a hoard of them and make instant profit.

Offline $$

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2011, 08:39:03 AM »
Dear friend

Thanks a lot

I will follow your instruction and keep as it is.

Is it a proof set ?

Samir

There is no need to go too extreme as what people are suggesting here.

As I mentioned about the price, it should be around 200USD easily. I don't know what Krause says on it but if it's much lower than that, I'm VERY interested to buy a hoard of them and make instant profit.
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2011, 06:09:38 PM »
Hard to judge from a small picture if it is a proof set. All I can say is that due to the (Leningrad?) medal in the plastic, it was a set issued by the mint.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline gxseries

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2011, 02:10:01 AM »
I remember having a debate with regards to this particular coin set. Some coins struck in the later 70s seem to have qualities of proof because of the sharp striking features as well as highly reflective surfaces but as far as I know, these coins were struck in proof-like conditions but never as proofs. This came from a discussion in coinpeople.com with RW Julian, who visited Russia back in the 70s and gathered such information.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2011, 10:13:59 AM »
That solves my problems gxseries. Thanks. My best guess is that these coins were struck carefully, slowly and with mor than the usual force, but neither twice, nor on polished dies. The effect of this method is a deep, sharp strike with mirroring effect on most of the large flat, low surfaces, but no "milky" or "satin" effect on the raised surface. Prooflike would indeed be an adequate description. Please remember that this is a guess only, Samir.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline gxseries

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2011, 10:34:16 AM »
Well you see, there's more to this story when I brought this topic up a couple of years ago. Here's what I have to illustrate:

Standard 1961 ruble from a specimen set


And then a "proof-like" 1978 ruble that was broken apart from mint sets


You can tell that the "proof-like" coin is highly reflective. I guess you can say that with modern coins, some coins can be highly reflective when they are freshly struck but if you collect Soviet coins, from my experience UNC coins never had such reflective surfaces. I guess there must have been some special care taken when striking coins for mint sets but not in "proof" standard. NGC has graded a few of similar coins as proof though.

Regardless of what strike it is classified under, this mintset is rather scarce compared to coins packed in hard plastic casing.

If you are interested in reading more information about Soviet mintsets, please feel free to read them here: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/sovietset/sovietset.htm Prices are slightly outdated but they are at least worth what I have researched a few years ago.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 01:07:17 PM by Niels »

Offline kumarrahul

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2011, 02:49:05 PM »
Well you see, there's more to this story when I brought this topic up a couple of years ago. Here's what I have to illustrate:

Standard 1961 ruble from a specimen set


And then a "proof-like" 1978 ruble that was broken apart from mint sets


You can tell that the "proof-like" coin is highly reflective. I guess you can say that with modern coins, some coins can be highly reflective when they are freshly struck but if you collect Soviet coins, from my experience UNC coins never had such reflective surfaces. I guess there must have been some special care taken when striking coins for mint sets but not in "proof" standard. NGC has graded a few of similar coins as proof though.

Regardless of what strike it is classified under, this mintset is rather scarce compared to coins packed in hard plastic casing.

If you are interested in reading more information about Soviet mintsets, please feel free to read them here: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/sovietset/sovietset.htm Prices are slightly outdated but they are at least worth what I have researched a few years ago.

Thanks gxseries... this is a very good read..

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2011, 04:50:09 PM »
I do not collect packaged sets, but find these very interesting for the light they shed on Soviet thinking. First, there is the fact that until 1988, only Leningrad seems to have produced sets, if I understand your web page correctly. This illustrates wonderfully the concept of specialisation that was very important to Soviet thinking.

Then, there is the very gradual understanding that sets can be exported for foreign currency, another concept dear to Soviet thinking (remember Lenin's claim that capitalists would sell the rope they would be hung with?) The first sets seem to have been made for dignitaries and visitors only, later sets have bad packaging, proofs are added still later and suddenly, the sun breaks through and things fall into place, a couple of decades too late. Meanwhile, capitalists like Franklin Mint are running away with the US market.

Your web page illustrates wonderfully how plodding bureaucracies are capable even of producing luxury, hand made goods with an individual character. Just not in time. Thanks!

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline gxseries

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2011, 06:53:20 PM »
There's always a story to tell Peter. A lot of these coins as well as the survival rates of them depended on the Soviet economy back then, global financial status and politics.

The 1957 and 1961 coin sets were only sent abroad to foreign banks to educate overseas banks of their old and new coinage. Limited mintsets were made for 'special' people and were mostly sent overseas. Exception of this is the 1967 commemorative mintset as few tens of thousands were made. What I have traced is that a fair amount of 'scarce' mintsets were coming from Germany and from the UK, and a few from the US. Surprisingly some of the rarest mintset, the 1970 mintsets were from the UK. I traced at least 20 sets from there while I was actively doing my survey. Another tough mintset, the 1973 mintset - significant amount of them are from the US. Other tougher years are coming from Germany and US. As of why, I do not know but it might shed a bit of light of how marketing was done back then.

Production ramped up at around 1974-5 as the Soviets were awarded for the Moscow Olympics. Of course, it would be smart marketing to sell them to the West as there's no way a typical Soviet could afford coins. Possibly a common folk could afford only one of the Soviet silver olympic coins but that was around 50USD - hefty sum of money back then and that was about two months of savings. Gold and platinum would be out of the question and if one did attempt to buy them, some secret agents would have pulled you over and inspected your bank account and determine how you managed to obtain such money. Besides, while silver and ni-cupro coins were somewhat available to the public, gold and platinum didn't or you had to know the right people to buy them from.

Hence, mint officiers in Leningrad Mint thought it would be a fantastic idea to sell as much coins out to the West through the Mezhnumizmatika venture over in Germany.

Coins / bullions that were up for production are:

- Chervonets
- Common mint sets but in various packagings
- Medals
- Coins in ni-cupro, silver, gold and platinum

As Leningrad mint could not handle all of the production at once, some production were sent over to Moscow Mint to handle the increased demand. It should have worked out very well except it turned out to be a diaster which required a few years to recover.

As hinted in the beginning, three major factors caused the coinage program to become a diaster:
- poor Soviet economy, hence most of the coinages had to be exported to make a profit
- global finance seems to be similar to today - metal prices shot up to make the program very expensive and unprofitable. (remember the Hunt brothers?) Gold actually was MORE expensive than today if you include inflation
- the 1979 Soviet invasion of the Afganistan caused massive global boycott which unfortunately included coins and such

All these factors caused the coinage program to become a major diaster. Too many coins were minted and had to be remelted as precious metal prices shot up too high. After 1980, special coins in mint set pretty much halted with a big brake for fear of similar nightmare. This is why it is common to see mint sets from 1974-1980 (except 1976 as the 1976 20 kopek is a key date) and the next common mint set is issued from 1987-1991. The missing year gap of 1981-1986 mint sets are actually getting quite hard to find.

It was only in 1988 where the Soviet mints attempted to restart making better decision with their precious metal coinage which turned out to be a lot more successful which only breaked again in 1991-2 and 1995-7.

Hope that shed a bit more light from what I have researched. That took a while to investigate but quite worthwhile.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Some coins from USSR 1974
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2011, 01:55:25 AM »
Thanks gxseries. Very interesting indeed!

I do remember the Moscow olympics and the Afghanistan boycott, which indeed, included coins. However, there is a difference between the Olympics commemoratives and the chervonets. The Olympics commemoratives were aimed at novice collectors and clearly inspired by the Canadian olympics issues. People weren't used to mega-issues of types yet. My impression is that many collectors took the boycott (which was a bit half-hearted in the first place) as the perfect excuse not to buy the commemoratives.

The chervonets were the Russian answer to the Kruger rand: a tax-free way for retail investors to invest in gold. Unfortunately, they were issued only when the EEC (now the EU) changed its VAT rules to include non-circulating legal tender as covered by VAT. The rand went on dominating the market and the chervonets never caught on big. That had nothing to do with the Olympics or the boycott, but rather with late entry in the market and poor marketing.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.