Author Topic: Wert(h) marke generic tokens  (Read 3591 times)

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Offline malj1

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Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« on: July 25, 2011, 09:15:02 AM »
I have seen these listed as house money also waiters checks.

I have just spotted a modern one on eBay...



from...  Berlin, AEG, Wert-Marke f. Münzzähler, Messingmarke o.J., Menzel 1826.1, ss-vz
Malcolm
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Offline Arminius

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2011, 12:49:17 PM »
This is a rather common German token design and "Teutonia" was a very common name for many institutions, associations, pubs, clubs and so on then.
As nearly all of those using these tokens are gone or can´t remember details any more it will be hard to locate it exactly.

Here is a similar design without punched initials but with abbreviated denomination:



iron, 20 mm / 2,24 g.

 :)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2011, 12:55:37 PM »
I find it a bit strange to assign these generic tokens to Brazil or South Africa. They were produced in mass in Germany and sold to all buyers. You might as well assign them to the eskimos. Now if they are engraved with an identifiable name, that's different, but as long as they are anonymous, their only sure link is with Germany.

BTW, Wertmarke is just a German word for token. There is no connection between this machine token and the generic ones shown in this thread other than the use of German. The generic tokens were not made for use in machines.

Peter
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Offline africancoins

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2011, 07:33:08 PM »
Not South Africa....  "German South West Africa"..... these days Namibia....

I have seen images of the hotel tokens and they are clearly for hotels in what is now Namibia...  they are rather sought after...

One example - a set of denominations each piece stamped "Hafen Hotel Swakopmund" (in two lines).....

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 01:09:27 AM »
From: German Tokens, Part II, Colonial issues Austria, Luxembourg, Switzerland and other areas by Jerry Schimmel, 1988

Thanks, Rimidi.

Apart from the areas mentioned, I have one with an engraving from Switzerland.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 01:38:19 AM »
And here is the relevant entry in the same book showing those used in Brazil..

Malcolm
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 02:01:35 AM »
Here is one that can definitely be assigned, since it is counterstamped with a name and address. Hotel Sonnenberg still exists. It is in a park called Sonnenberg, now in the commune of Kriens, near Luzern. I suspect that the hotel used to be a tuberculosis clinic and that the house money was used to "prevent contamination", an excuse used more often. In fact, copper is a reasonably good bacteria killer.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 02:24:49 AM »
To illustrate the engraving point even more, here is a series of tokens without inscription. Similar tokens are known to have been used in psychiatric hospitals in Oegstgeest (psychiatric wards "Endegeest" and "Voorgeest"), Castricum ("Duin en Bosch") and Santpoort (psychiatric pavillion "Meerenburg"). However, the same type was widely used in Germany and there is no way to distinguish between tokens used in Germany and those in the Netherlands. Some or all of these tokens may well have been used in Germany only. The exception is the Dutch cent with the triangle taken out.

There is also a series used in St. Cansius psychiatric hospital in Nijmegen. These are marked St. Cansius and can therefore be assigned to the Netherlands.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 07:47:53 AM »
Yes apparently there were a lot of ships using these. Here are several items cut and pasted from a discussion in the Australian Numismatic Societies bulletin from back in 1995 and 1996.



See particularly item 6 where mention is made of a book listing many ships using these.
Malcolm
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 11:36:51 AM »
Complete reference is: Peter-Hannes Lehmann Das deutsche Flottengeld in: Norddeutsches Jahrbuch für Münzkunde und verwandte Gebiete, Volume I, 1979, pages 249 - 272, Publishing company of the auction house of Tiejen & Co., Hamburg

The same generic tokens were indeed used on board German merchant and warships. SMS Freya was an armoured cruiser, whose name gave rise to the English expression "thank god it's Freya". ;)

Peter
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 11:44:11 AM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline malj1

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2011, 01:13:47 PM »
Google [+ Translate] gave me this...

Peter Lehmann, Hannes
The German fleet money
In: North German Yearbook of numismatics and related areas
Volume I
1979
Pages 249-272
Published by the auction house Tiejen & Co., Hamburg
In 1909 from the Imperial Navy Office issued "Regulations on the service on board" containing the "Regulations for the Administration of the ship's canteen," is regulated in the output of tokens (canteen funds). Under § 15 states:
"The canteen items should be administered only in cash in the rule. The commander, however, is empowered to order the expenditure abroad of tokens or allow an exception from case to case, that the purchase price is deferred to the team ..."
A slightly modified version of this provision was also in the navy of the III. Empire. The Imperial Navy of the Weimar Republic had taken over the text of the imperial era.
By a number of warships tokens are known from the SMS and SMS Hindenburg Thuringia and paper money.

I have one piece from SMS Emden; a much sought after series of tokens in Australia as the ship was grounded off the Cocos Islands on the 9th  November, 1914 by the Australian cruiser H.M.A.S. Sydney.


Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2011, 05:09:17 PM »
Very nice one, Malcolm. The obverse of your token looks different, but the reverse looks exactly like the Freya token, so this one also belongs in the Wert(h) Marke series.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Lori

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2013, 08:43:49 AM »
One more,
1.47 grams,  17.5 mm diam.

Offline redwine

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2013, 09:32:57 AM »
And some from me  ;D
If you like what you see, don't be shy, make me an offer!

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Wert(h) marke generic tokens
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2013, 09:46:26 AM »
The 5 is shaped consistently in all pictures. However, there are two very different 2s, one with a wavy base, matching the 5 and one with a straight base.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.